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From: do...@cristal.intel.com (Doug Carter)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sysv386
Subject: BSD/386
Summary: It's for real.
Keywords: 386, BSD, real unix...
Message-ID: <1991Oct30.220026.8330@intelhf.hf.intel.com>
Date: 30 Oct 91 22:00:26 GMT
Sender: n...@intelhf.hf.intel.com (News User)
Organization: Merwin Software Services, Beaverton, Or.
Lines: 29
Originator: dougc@cristal
Nntp-Posting-Host: cristal.intel.com
Funny, first there was all talk and no action. Now there's some action
and no talk. I got this from a friend who got it off of CompuServe last
week.
===========================================================================
You'll be able to license BSD386 from
Berkeley Software Design
3110 Fairview Dr. Suite 580
Falls Church, Va. 22042
1-800-ITS-UNIX (1-800-487-8649)
It's $995, available in January. Note that the system comes with full source
to *everything* in the Berkeley, X11, NFS, networking and so on. Plan to have
a *big* disk drive.
===========================================================================
I called them, they *are* real, I got some info in the mail within 2 days.
Doug Carter.
--
==========================================================================
| Doug Carter do...@cristal.intel.com (503) 696-4235 |
| Working at, but not for, Intel Development Tools, Hillsboro, Oregon. |
==========================================================================
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From: e...@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (eugene.yurek)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sysv386
Subject: Re: BSD/386
Message-ID: <1991Oct31.173535.29195@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
Date: 31 Oct 91 17:35:35 GMT
References: <1991Oct30.220026.8330@intelhf.hf.intel.com>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 57
From article <1991Oct30.220026.8...@intelhf.hf.intel.com>, by do...@cristal.intel.com (Doug Carter):
>
> ===========================================================================
>
> You'll be able to license BSD386 from
> Berkeley Software Design
> 3110 Fairview Dr. Suite 580
> Falls Church, Va. 22042
> 1-800-ITS-UNIX (1-800-487-8649)
>
> It's $995, available in January. Note that the system comes with full source
> to *everything* in the Berkeley, X11, NFS, networking and so on. Plan to have
> a *big* disk drive.
>
> ===========================================================================
>
> I called them, they *are* real, I got some info in the mail within 2 days.
You need to read between the lines.
Berkeley isn't releasing the first version of BSD UNIX v4.4 until at least
the middle of 1992 (and its questionable whether this first release of BSD4.4
will be completely free of all AT&T code). I know this because I spoke to
one of the individuals that are working on 4.4BSD.
What Berkeley Software Design is releasing in January (I called and talked
to them) is the networking release of 4.3BSD.
The 4.3 BSD kernel, and several other programs still contain AT&T code in
this release.
I believe that the statement "comes with full source to *everything*..." is
a misnomer. Berkeley Software Design can't give out AT&T source code.
They can only distribute sources that are free of ALL AT&T code, unless they
want a really ugly legal battle on their hands. Because of this, I seriously
doubt you will get kernel source (maybe pieces of it, but not everything).
Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to throw dirt in the face of the people
at Berkeley Software Design. They are planning on supplying a lot of source
and a lot of executables as well as the networking version of the BSD4.3 kernel.
This is probably well worth the price (if it all really works), but I'd be
amazed if they actually supplied ALL the source. You can't sublicense an
AT&T Unix Source License. Everyone has to get their own at a cost of something
outrageous, like $50k the last time I checked. So long as there is even one
line of AT&T code in a file, you need the AT&T source license to legally own
a copy of this file, and you can't give it to anyone else.
I hope that there will eventually be a freely distributable version of UNIX.
Whether this is some BSD version, or the stuff the FSF is working on (laying
a UNIX-compatible file system module on top of the MACH kernel) doesn't really
matter, so long as it looks, smells and tastes like UNIX, and you can legally
get the source code without any costly licensing fees.
--
Gene Yurek Internet: e...@hrojr.att.com
AT&T Bell Laboratories UUCP: ...!att!hrojr!ejy
Middletown, NJ 07748 Voice: (908) 615-5802
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From: r...@uunet.uu.net (Rick Adams)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sysv386
Subject: Re: BSD/386
Summary: real and full sources
Message-ID: <1991Oct31.192433.29052@uunet.uu.net>
Date: 31 Oct 91 19:24:33 GMT
References: <1991Oct30.220026.8330@intelhf.hf.intel.com> <1991Oct31.173535.29195@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
Sender: use...@uunet.uu.net (UseNet News)
Followup-To: comp.unix.sysv386,comp.unix.i386
Organization: UUNET Communications Services
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Nntp-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
I have a copy of the alpha tape running here. I have met the people involved.
It is real, as are the people working on it.
The tape contains full source to everything including the kernel. No surprises.
Of course there is no ATT source code on the tape. Thats a feature! No ATT
code = no ATT royalty = CHEAPER (and many would say probably better...)
BSDI has invested multiple man years in filling in the missing pieces from the
CSRG Net 2 distribution and getting it to run on the 386/486. That what
you are paying for.
Right now the BSDI folks are putting all of their resources into making
the system work, not employing people to sit on the phone and say "yes
it's real". Think of it as the converse of vaporware. They wont
talk about it until it is working.
If you're curious, get on the list to get a beta copy and free
upgrade to the real release. There's a money back guanrantee, so what
can you lose?
No, I can't say anything more about it.
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From: e...@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (eugene.yurek)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sysv386
Subject: Re: BSD/386
Message-ID: <1991Nov4.173119.8570@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
Date: 4 Nov 91 17:31:19 GMT
References: <1991Nov2.133403.4725@pegasus.com>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 24
From article <1991Nov2.133403.4...@pegasus.com>, by rich...@pegasus.com (Richard Foulk):
> Well I got a flyer from these guys in the mail recently that went
> something like this:
>
>
> ... stuff deleted ... BSD/386 Source - $995
>
> BSD/386 is a complete system with no optional modules (unlike other
> "systems"). It includes full TCP/IP and OSI networking, a reimplementation
> of Sun's Network File System (NFS), the X Window System Version 11 Release 5,
> text processing software, (troff, TeX, etc.), POSIX functionality, ANSI C,
> and C++. Complete source is provided for the system as well as the binaries.
> There is no additional charge for "multiple users" on the system.
>
I don't consider this to be complete. Where are the SCSI drivers to allow
boot from SCSI drives. Most of the serious UNIX people I know have gone
completely SCSI (including me). This release would be useless to me without
the SCSI drivers.
--
Gene Yurek Internet: e...@hrojr.att.com
AT&T Bell Laboratories UUCP: ...!att!hrojr!ejy
Middletown, NJ 07748 Voice: (908) 615-5802
Path: gmdzi!zeus.ieee.org!europa.asd.contel.com!uunet!uunet!rick
From: r...@uunet.uu.net (Rick Adams)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sysv386
Subject: Re: BSD/386
Summary: complete means complete
Message-ID: <1991Nov4.231704.22451@uunet.uu.net>
Date: 4 Nov 91 23:17:04 GMT
References: <1991Nov2.133403.4725@pegasus.com> <1991Nov4.173119.8570@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
Sender: use...@uunet.uu.net (UseNet News)
Organization: UUNET Communications Services
Lines: 24
Nntp-Posting-Host: rodan.uu.net
In article <1991Nov4.173119.8...@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>, e...@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (eugene.yurek) writes:
> I don't consider this to be complete. Where are the SCSI drivers to allow
> boot from SCSI drives. Most of the serious UNIX people I know have gone
> completely SCSI (including me). This release would be useless to me without
> the SCSI drivers.
It has an Adaptec 1542B SCSI driver. Now is it complete?
If you want to pick nits, I'd claim that ATT (with the possible exception
of Sys5R4 which I havent had to use yet) has never shipped a complete
system.
Missing little things like networking or manual pages or allowing
the unbundling of various components (e.g. troff) are what
make a system complete, not picking out random "missing"
device drivers.
I have a copy. I'm not guessing - You are. It's much, much more "complete"
than most ATT software products.
--rick
I admit that there will always be SOME device that is not supported, but
that's true of every product I've ever heard of.
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From: e...@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (eugene.yurek)
Newsgroups: comp.unix.sysv386
Subject: Re: BSD/386
Message-ID: <1991Nov5.214143.17539@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>
Date: 5 Nov 91 21:41:43 GMT
References: <1991Nov4.231704.22451@uunet.uu.net>
Organization: AT&T Bell Laboratories
Lines: 42
From article <1991Nov4.231704.22...@uunet.uu.net>, by r...@uunet.uu.net (Rick Adams):
> In article <1991Nov4.173119.8...@cbnewsi.cb.att.com>, e...@cbnewsi.cb.att.com (eugene.yurek) writes:
>> I don't consider this to be complete. Where are the SCSI drivers to allow
>> boot from SCSI drives. Most of the serious UNIX people I know have gone
>> completely SCSI (including me). This release would be useless to me without
>> the SCSI drivers.
>
> It has an Adaptec 1542B SCSI driver. Now is it complete?
>
> If you want to pick nits, I'd claim that ATT (with the possible exception
> of Sys5R4 which I havent had to use yet) has never shipped a complete
> system.
>
> Missing little things like networking or manual pages or allowing
> the unbundling of various components (e.g. troff) are what
> make a system complete, not picking out random "missing"
> device drivers.
>
> I have a copy. I'm not guessing - You are. It's much, much more "complete"
> than most ATT software products.
>
> --rick
>
> I admit that there will always be SOME device that is not supported, but
> that's true of every product I've ever heard of.
I didn't consider that I was guessing. I got BSD's one page flyer a few days
before I posted the above followup. The Supported Hardware list for Disk
Storage reads:
ESDI, ST506, RLL or IDE Interface Hard Disks
If BSD really supports the Adaptec 1542 (I'm not questioning you, I believe
you), they ought to update their brochure. Also, I have a Bustek 1542 SCSI
Host Adapter. This is faster and less expensive than the Adaptec. I believe
that the Bustek is compatible with the Adaptec, but I'm not sure. I'd be nice
if the BSD people checked into this and advertised that it works (if it does).
--
Gene Yurek Internet: e...@hrojr.att.com
AT&T Bell Laboratories UUCP: ...!att!hrojr!ejy
Middletown, NJ 07748 Voice: (908) 615-5802
|