Re: When will SEO be integrated?
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2005, 06:04:16 PM »
SakaMalibu: I understand that some people without enough knowledge about
Mambo and it's history may perceive a "conflict of interest". That's why I explained
this many, many times on the old forums but people are obviously too lazy to do
a search.
In the team we have accepted the policy that our only objective must be to do things
that are for the good for the project as a whole and that prevents conflict with
anyones personal aims.
Regarding the database restructure it was planned for version 5.0. Right now nobody
can't give you the exact date, especially not after recent happenings.
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« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2005, 05:23:37 PM »
malibuYes! That's what I'm talking about! Open, honest communication!!
The only thing you missed Saka, is TIMING!? When will the database be updated
to the point where a proper SEF solution can be implemented with the core?
I HAD read some of the old threads which pointed to some misunderstandings, and
questioning of motives. And you seem to be conscious of the potential for
people to perceive a "conflict of interest" for Core Developers. I cannot
speak for others, but while your answer satisfies me... I think this is a matter
that the Core Dev team needs to consider taking a 'position' on for the community
as a whole.
I understand much better now. In order to implement a solution which will
not negatively impact the performance of the core CMS, a database restructure is
required. BTW... open source dbase restructures can be PAINFUL... ouch.
So, just let me know when this NECESSARY advancement is slated to take place, and
I'll get my shots from the nurse.
Re: When will SEO be integrated?
Reply #20 on: August 23, 2005, 04:29:22 PM
Saka
Development Workgroup
Full Member
This has already been raised and discussed many times on the old forum.
As this is the new forum I will copy the respond again here.
It's not true that better SEF is not being adding to the core because someone is
selling it. The reason why SEF advance type of SEF isn't part of core is really
technical.
Firstly it makes too many query calls to database which increases the load pretty
much.
Standard, built-in SEF that I also made doesn't make a single additional database
call which makes it very quick.
Besides it is following the content structure and that's why it almost doesn't require
any maintenance at all. Having more advanced SEF in core on the current database
structure and having thousands of users would create all kind of problems and issues
which will just lead to patching without ground solution.
SEF advance is not clean and solid bugfree solution and requires me to activly support
my clients every day. This is something that I would not be able to do if I had
thousands of users.
Of course we are planning to change the database structure soon which will allow
for better integration of more powerful SEF (going to NBS and infinite level of
categories).
Don't think that I, as core developer, am holding back core in order to make cash
(like some evil souls here have suggested). Anyone in the team is free to code whatever
the community want.
There is no conflict of interest there. I made SEF in Mambo in the first place and
I would have included SEF advance at that time if I felt that it is a solid solution
for core.
If you or anyone else can make a solid, fully functional, bug free SEF code with
low maintenance grade on the current DB we would be happy to include it in core
today.
But believe me at this point it is impossible to make a clean SEF code before restructuring
the database.
I would also like to poit out that there are plenty of other, free SEF components
you can use in the meantime. Some will work better, some worse and neither will
work perfectly until DB is restructured.
« Reply #19 on: August 23, 2005, 03:09:50 PM
iainshaw
Sr. Member
Gosh this is a tricky one
I support anyone's right to make money out of added-value services for Mambo. I
use SEF Advance and I'd like to see better SEF in the core product.
How to resolve this? The only obvious way is rather dramatic
« Reply #18 on: August 23, 2005, 02:53:33 PM »
kenmcd
Joomla! Hero
To clarify, I see absolutely nothing wrong with anyone associated with Mambo/OSM,
including the core team, running a consulting business.
It makes perfect sense.
And there is no conflict of interest by doing this.
The conflict I see is when something is obviously not being adding to the core because
someone is selling it.
That is a conflict of interest.
And not good for the users as a whole.
If every core developer started selling the high-demand components, where would
we be?
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2005, 05:20:25 AM »
QuickSync
Jr. Member
Nice points there Ken...
And to think I would least expect that to come from you.
Here's more... before the announcement of the $ambo Foundation, MamboDev which is
owned by a member of the Core Dev Team, phoenixed into JamboWorks which is now being
run by at least five of the Core Dev Team members themselves (See "About Us" page
of OSM). I don't see any conflict of interest here, but hey, is there anything
that the community should know that we are not aware of regarding the real score
in the Dev Teams' "walkout" from Miro's control?
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2005, 03:56:00 AM »
kenmcdThe same person coding the SEF in the core is selling the Advanced SEF.
How can this not be a conflict of interest?
With all the very strong and very vocal opposition to the commercialization of Mambo
it seems rather odd to not point out the obvious.
This conflict of interest was pointed out previously in the Mambo forum - no response.
It needs to be discussed.
As you said, open and honest civilized discussion.
There are many, many, many posts in the Mambo forum (and now continuing here) requesting
improvements to the SEF component. The demand for this is huge.
This is why someone is selling a lot of components, and probably making a very good
profit on their work.
This person is also on the Core Developer team.
This is why the core SEF component has not been improved in spite of the huge demand.
Nothing wrong with writing and selling commercial components.
But you should not also be on the Core Development team.
One or the other.
The conflict of interest issue is a major criticism of the Miro / Mambo Foundation
relationship.
No one wants Miro controlling the core and using that control to make a profit.
The Core Developer team controls the code and what gets added, or not added.
How is that any different?
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2005, 08:55:50 PM »
malibuQuote from: kenmcd on August 22, 2005, 06:59:22 PM
Nothing new will make it into the core until a core developer is no longer profiting
from a working product - a commercial product.
...
This is an obvious conflict of interest.
And the obvious reason why a more powerful SEF component is not included in the
core.
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2005, 06:59:22 PM »
kenmcdNothing new will make it into the core until a core developer is
no longer profiting from a working product - a commercial product.
You may notice in the 4.5.3 CVS changelog the same developer has made some changes
to the SEF already included. Apparently since this is his expertise, he is the one
assigned to this component.
This is an obvious conflict of interest.
And the obvious reason why a more powerful SEF component is not included in the
core.
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2005, 06:30:45 PM »
keliix06You can also check out http://www.xaneon.com/. Not sure when something more robust will make it into the core.
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« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2005, 07:32:18 PM »
guilliam"...and I should just be quiet now?" -dan
hmmmnn.. i dont see shuting up resolves any issues. at any rate, pls check the URL
given below.. that maybe the solution you were looking for to address the concern
of this thread.
http://www.sakic.net/scripting/mambo/sef_advance/
its the url i wasnt able to post in my prior reply. check the skype.com site that
used the component..
i see the point in the integration of this matter in the core too! and obviously
it will greatly help the CMS in so many facets... otherwise,.. this step will be
putting other TPD's out of business in the SEF/SEO side of the story. BUT indeed
it will be for the greatest concern IF leaning on the ~community~ perspective.
guilliam
Re: When will SEO be integrated?
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2005, 01:45:57 PM »
malibuOkay... now that I'm slightly MORE read up on this, I guess I need to append
my question:
At what point in the developmental level will ***** CMS have a much more 'robust',
stronger, more aesthetically pleasing SEO/SEF system. To my untrained (in
the world of SEO) noodle, I would think this would be critical to any CMS.
Dynamic sites must crawl incredibly well for ranking on Search Engines... if a site
won't rank well, it'll never get traffic. I can think of one ecommerce site
owner who went back to static pages for his site and put himself at the Google Top
3 for several major web searches for his store.
Or am I unknowingly jumping into a political issue with 3PD's and I should just
be quiet now?
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2005, 01:00:15 AM »
guilliamhello @malibu,
i believe it SHOULD crawl better.. IF I AM A SEARCH ENGINE i would prefer reading:
yoursite.com/component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/
compared to:
yoursite.com/index.php?option=com_frontpage&Itemid=1
IF I AM A SEARCH ENGINE, i'll surely hate rading that "?" after the .php and the
ampersands in betweens..
IF I AM A SEARCH ENGINE, i'll surely love reading:
yoursite.com/yousites_home_page.html
^^that is how the advance SEF component works (sakic)
UNFORTUANTELY, im ONLY human,.. IM NOT A SEARCH ENGINE.. so i cannot 100 percent
guarantee what a search engine REALLY loves to read/crawl. but based on users feedback
... the Advance SEF really works and gets better results.
guilliam
btw.. anyone really thought IM A SEARCH ENGINE? wow cool that! serch engine bot
that can even write and post in OSM.. ahihihihi!
ditto
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Re: When will SEO be integrated?
« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2005, 04:35:18 PM »
tjayNot that I can see, I use it on all my sites even one done with phpshop.
The only problem I ever had was with SMF forum, but even that might be fixed now
as I have not stayed current with it.
My most challenging site was using a secure server https / SEO names / SEF all on
one site
works great. Just have to turn it on and change htaccess.txt file to .htaccess
There are some server settings that could mess it up, mod rewrite I think
Re: When will SEO be integrated?
« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2005, 04:21:54 PM »
malibuGood question Tjay: when I first started migrating over, I read
some posts pointing out problems with turning on the SEO--so I shied away from turning
them on. I thought that was the reason the 3PD solution came about...
If I can be educated; is there any problem with the built-in SEO, or the dynamic
page titles?
Re: When will SEO be integrated?
« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2005, 04:11:41 PM »
tjaySEO at least page names and SEF are in the 4.5.2 is it turned on in your config?
When will SEO be integrated?
« on: August 19, 2005, 03:58:16 PM »
malibu
New Member
At what level of release does the master plan say SEO will be integrated into
the CORE?
I just had a heart attack when I realized the two sites I'd converted to Mamb* over
the last 6 months had both fallen off page one for their Google searches...