Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!daitc!vrdxhq!grebyn!alembic!c3pe!aliza
From: al...@c3pe.UUCP (Aliza R. Panitz (AlmostLady))
Newsgroups: talk.bizarre,alt.flame,news.admin
Subject: Commercial Newsfeeds (Was: something else)
Summary: how much bandwidth is taken by pay-uucp?
Message-ID: <3358@c3pe.UUCP>
Date: 5 Sep 88 22:59:57 GMT
References: <5700@ecsvax.uncecs.edu> <6253@gryphon.CTS.COM>
Reply-To: al...@c3pe.UUCP (Aliza R. Panitz (AlmostLady))
Followup-To: news.admin
Organization: K. L. Ginter & Associates, Inc.
Lines: 44
PLEASE NOTE: The article I am quoting came from (eek!) talk.bizarre
and alt.flame. The point it was raising, and which I am emphasizing,
is (purportedly :-> ) a bit more serious. I have directed followups
to news.admin. If your followup belongs elsewhere, please edit the
[fg]roups and followup lines.
In article <6...@gryphon.CTS.COM> rich...@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) writes:
>In article <5...@ecsvax.uncecs.edu> dev.null writes:
>>I vote we boycott ANYTHING to/from Portal until that sys admin
>>starts controlling what comes out of there.
>
>Meybe we could figure out how many phone lines portal has, and
>all take turns hogging them so none of their regular users
>can log on.
>
>On a more serious side, it's a new trend in USENETness. This is not
>some company supporting USENET as a sideline, this is their
>business. One of their feeds, UUNET feeds them as a business.
>If a company or Uni[versity] gets annoyed at one of their (l)users,
>they just ``desupport'' them. Now that these bozos are paying
>customers, the dark side of this arrangement is they don't have
>the kind fof freedom to do what they want about rabid low grade
>morons like these. They're *customers*.
>
>Portal and uunet. The whores of the NET.
Take a look at the monthly statistics. Three of the highest volume systems
are "pay uucp" arrangements - portal.cup.com, dasys (a.k.a. Electric Cat)
and killer.
The demographic load profile of Usenet and news changes considerably when
a signifigant portion is generated by people whose primary use of the
machines is for news and mail.
Maybe this is something to consider in discussions of the future of the net.
(This is the first time I've seen the issue raised in News, but it's been
on my mind for a while)
--
- Aliza (AlmostLady) (decuac.dec.com!c3pe!aliza or backbone!decuac!c3pe!aliza)
It's football season!!! I can read the sports page again!!!
Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!husc6!think!ames!killer!dcs!wnp
From: w...@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Commercial Newsfeeds (Was: something else)
Message-ID: <201@dcs.UUCP>
Date: 7 Sep 88 06:59:50 GMT
References: <5700@ecsvax.uncecs.edu> <6253@gryphon.CTS.COM> <3358@c3pe.UUCP>
Reply-To: w...@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul)
Organization: DCS, Dallas, Texas
Lines: 26
In article <3...@c3pe.UUCP> al...@c3pe.UUCP (Aliza R. Panitz (AlmostLady)) writes:
>In article <6...@gryphon.CTS.COM> rich...@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton) writes:
>>Portal and uunet. The whores of the NET.
>
>Take a look at the monthly statistics. Three of the highest volume systems
>are "pay uucp" arrangements - portal.cup.com, dasys (a.k.a. Electric Cat)
>and killer.
Killer is NOT a "pay uucp" system -- when you first sign up for access, you
are firmly told that "Donations are not solicited, and will not be accepted".
Killer users (and nodes fed by killer) therefore are not customers, and the
sysop retains the right to police their behavior. That he does not do so by
the same restrictive standards which others might like for him to use is another
matter.
And as far as Richard Sexton's "tasteful" statement quoted above is concerned:
To compare uunet to Portal is ludicrous. Uunet is charging enough to make ends
meet, if that -- it is a service provided by the USENIX association. It is
certainly not a profit-making venture like Portal.
--
Wolf N. Paul * 3387 Sam Rayburn Run * Carrollton TX 75007 * (214) 306-9101
UUCP: killer!dcs!wnp ESL: 62832882
DOMAIN: dcs!...@killer.dallas.tx.us TLX: 910-380-0585 EES PLANO UD
Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!pyrdc!netsys!vector!gryphon!richard
From: rich...@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Commercial Newsfeeds (Was: something else)
Message-ID: <6327@gryphon.CTS.COM>
Date: 7 Sep 88 16:04:14 GMT
Reply-To: rich...@gryphon.CTS.COM (Richard Sexton)
Organization: Trailing Edge Technology, Redondo Beach, CA
Lines: 28
In article <2...@dcs.UUCP> w...@dcs.UUCP (Wolf N. Paul) writes:
>And as far as Richard Sexton's "tasteful" statement quoted above is concerned:
What is this ? Mr. thin skinned man ?
It was a joke son, based on the priciple that the entire net
can decide not to carry a group, but uunet will because
it can make money off it. I see this as a good thing, but then
I also dont think prostitution should be legalised. Also this
was originally posted to talk.bizarre and alt.flamel I wouldnt
have posted it to a news.* group without toning it down or
explaining a bit more fully.
>To compare uunet to Portal is ludicrous. Uunet is charging enough to make ends
>meet, if that -- it is a service provided by the USENIX association.
Given what UUNET charges, and how many site they feed and their costs to
do what they do, by some (admittedly) wild asses guessing, there is a
fair amount of money involved here. Now, I'm not casting dispersions
on anyones honesty, but since nobody I know has seen a balance sheet
the impression remains.
We have a chain of stores here in Ca. that is ``non-profit''.
--
``Beam THAT between your pointy ears''
rich...@gryphon.CTS.COM {backbone}!gryphon!richard
Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!seismo!rick
From: r...@seismo.CSS.GOV (Rick Adams)
Newsgroups: news.admin
Subject: Re: Commercial Newsfeeds (Was: something else)
Summary: Don't confuse gross income with net income.
Message-ID: <44411@beno.seismo.CSS.GOV>
Date: 8 Sep 88 18:05:39 GMT
References: <6327@gryphon.CTS.COM>
Organization: Center for Seismic Studies, Arlington, VA
Lines: 31
> Given what UUNET charges, and how many site they feed and their costs to
> do what they do, by some (admittedly) wild asses guessing, there is a
> fair amount of money involved here. Now, I'm not casting dispersions
> on anyones honesty, but since nobody I know has seen a balance sheet
> the impression remains.
Legally, UUNET is part of USENIX. All of the UUNET money is in bank
accounts owned by USENIX (separate from the main accounts for
accounting convenience, but still owned by USENIX)
The USENIX Board of Directors has a legal responsibility to make sure
that the money is properly spent. They get a balance sheet every
quarter (and I assure you that they look at it closely!). Also, given
the IRS Tax Exempt status of USENIX, the IRS would take a very dim view
of UUNET (i.e. USENIX) making a true profit.
In addition, there will probably be a formal audit of the UUNET
finances sometime within the next six months. (A formal audit on a
regular basis is a normal part of any business operation.)
For the curious, UUNET gross income is about $50,000 per month.
Expenses are about $49,000 per month (The major expenses are about
$20,000 to Tymnet, about $15,000 to SPRINT and about $5,000 for the
computer loan.) Expenses currently do NOT include any salary money or
rental of office space. (These expenses will start this fall.)
At the current "profit" rate of $1,000 per month it would take many
years to pay back the money that was lost during the startup months of
operation.
--rick
Path: utzoo!attcan!uunet!seismo!rick
From: r...@uunet.UU.NET (Rick Adams)
Newsgroups: news.admin,comp.org.usenix
Subject: Re: Commercial Newsfeeds
Summary: uunet summary
Message-ID: <44415@beno.seismo.CSS.GOV>
Date: 15 Sep 88 04:20:22 GMT
References: <6327@gryphon.CTS.COM> <2461@epimass.EPI.COM> <1871@van-bc.UUCP>
Organization: UUNET Communications Services
Lines: 56
Currently the uunet computer is a 14 CPU Sequent Balance 21000. (The
Symmetry upgrade still hasn't arrived. It's currently scheduled to ship
on 9/16.) It has about 1 gigabyte of disk space. Here's a "df". Note
the filesystems that are mounted. It's a tad unusual...
Filesystem kbytes used avail capacity Mounted on
/dev/zd0a 7721 6143 805 88% /
/dev/zd2d 7721 503 6445 7% /tmp
/dev/zd0g 112197 98371 2606 97% /usr
/dev/zd1g 500878 202540 248250 45% /usr/spool
/dev/zd2f 216705 146926 48108 75% /usr/spool/ftp
/dev/zd0h 104491 79315 14726 84% /usr/spool/news
There is a 6250 bpi tape drive for backups and 24 megabytes of memory.
There are currently 32 serial ports and an X.25 board.
The X.25 board supports a 56 kbps Tymnet connection. The serial ports
are currently divided into 10 800 number ports, 12 "local" direct
dialup lines and 3 outbound WATS lines. There is a T-1 connection to
SPRINT for the 800 service and the WATS lines. (All modems are Telebit
Trailblazer Pluses)
uunet is connected to the Internet via a local ethernet and then through
the Center for Seismic Studies' arpanet IMP. It is connected to mcvax
via a 9600 bps serial line running SLIP (surprise...). The mcvax line
will be upgraded to 64 kbps as soon as they get it hooked up. (I.e. we
ordered it and are now waiting for it). It is the nameserver and
domain forwarder for about 100 domains.
There are currently 421 uunet subscribers. Each day we average about
200 connect hours and transfer about 190 megabytes (this does NOT count
Internet traffic). I think sendmail processes about 9-10,000 messages
per day, but I haven't checked lately. We are feeding news to about 202
sites.
Income is running about $50,000 per month. Expenses are running about
$49,000 per month ($20,000 for Tymnet; $15,000 for Sprint; $5,000 for
the computer). The average customer bill is about $125. The lowest is
$35. The highest is often over $1,000. The size of the bill depends on
how much data you transfer and how and when you do it. (E.g. using
Tymnet during the day is 9-10 times more expensive that using Tymnet at
night.) UUNET is run on a non-profit basis by the USENIX Association.
I expect the connect hours and megabytes transferred to greatly
increase Octoberish, when X11R3 is releasedish. Historically, traffic
increases about 40% for the 3 weeks after an X11 release. (With a
Trailblazer modem, you can uucp the X release for less money than MIT
charges for the distribution tape; and you get it a whole lot faster
[the same day its released if you are lucky]) If I could get MIT to put
out X releases more frequently, we be doing really well!
Information on subscribing to UUNET, etc can be obtained by sending
your postal address to uunet-requ...@uunet.uu.net or calling (703)
764-9789.
---rick
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