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From: a...@drux.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.general,btl.general
Subject: The saga of netnews at Denver AT&T (nee Bell Labs, ahh those were the days)
Message-ID: <111@drux.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 8-Nov-83 00:08:21 EST
Article-I.D.: drux.111
Posted: Tue Nov 8 00:08:21 1983
Date-Received: Wed, 9-Nov-83 06:51:07 EST
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Denver
Lines: 69
Netnews is being blindly hacked away at Denver AT&T Information Systems Labs,
the "communications company".
First, here is a recently posted article (posted by the supervisor
of the UNIX support group). The letter he is posting was written by
a department head.
From drux3!druxy!ken Wed Dec 31 17:00:00 1969
From: k...@druxy.UUCP (Ken Herman)
Newsgroups: dr.general
Subject: NET.NEWS and ARG logins at DR
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Denver
I have received the following statement concerning
recent NET.NEWS and ARG activity.
Ken Herman
____________________________________________________________________
Although we recognize the value of open and uninhibited
communications in our work environment such as can be provided
by NET.NEWS, we continue to experience abuses with NET.NEWS and with
the anonymous login for ARG.NEWS.
In order to cope with these problems in the short term, and until long
term solutions are found, the following actions have been taken:
Effective Friday Nov 4, non-project related news groups have been
turned off. Effective Monday Nov 7, the anonymous login for ARG.NEWS
has been eliminated.
In the near future we will be exploring new policies and ways to
implement improved communication mechanisms. The above subjects
will be discussed at the 11/15 ARG meeting.
A. Mizrahi
Things to note:
management doesn't even know the name of the system ("NET.NEWS"?)
"ARG" stands for "Action Research Group" - it is the official gripe
system. For several months, there has been a "dr.arg"
newsgroup which could be posted to annonomously (via
a public login).
Their definition of "non-project related news groups" includes
all netnews from outside of our Denver location:
att.all, btl.all, bell.all, and net.all.
The "abuses" referred to include (I suppose) several complaints
about the recent elimination of net.jokes from our
machines (because of the unusually offensive joke from
Shell Oil Co). Some of these complaints were anonomyous
and expressed the sentiment "Affirmative Action, get
off my back!". The most recent "offenses" were two
articles which objected to the fact that the local
United Way campaign says you can designate that your
contribution go to a designated agency, but if you do
so the total amount given to that agency does not change,
because other "non-designated" funds are channeled away
from that agency.
TWO EMPLOYEES HAVE BEEN SEVERLY REPRIMANDED for those United
Way articles (which were signed).
THIS IS FRIGHTENING!
FOR THE FIRST TIME I'M WORRIED ABOUT SIGNING MY NAME!
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Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!bbncca!sdyer
From: s...@bbncca.ARPA (Steve Dyer)
Newsgroups: net.followup,btl.general
Subject: Re: The saga of netnews at Denver AT&T...
Message-ID: <288@bbncca.ARPA>
Date: Tue, 8-Nov-83 20:07:09 EST
Article-I.D.: bbncca.288
Posted: Tue Nov 8 20:07:09 1983
Date-Received: Wed, 9-Nov-83 23:33:44 EST
References: <111@drux.UUCP>
Organization: Bolt, Beranek and Newman, Cambridge, Ma.
Lines: 13
It might be helpful to remember that places of employment are, at best,
benevolent tyrannies, and not democracies. While I think it's sad that
AT&T Denver removed all netnews, I also feel that it's their prerogative
to follow any policy they like.
I think that 'net.general' is an inappropriate place to discuss, um,
corporate dirty linen. Talk to your boss, send a message to your
management, talk to someone who can make a difference. But don't try to
make a public issue out of it. This will only polarize the situation, and
it won't change a thing.
/Steve Dyer
decvax!bbncca!sdyer
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Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!bbncca!jbray
From: j...@bbncca.ARPA (James Bray)
Newsgroups: net.followup
Subject: Re: The saga of netnews at Denver AT&T...
Message-ID: <292@bbncca.ARPA>
Date: Wed, 9-Nov-83 11:26:59 EST
Article-I.D.: bbncca.292
Posted: Wed Nov 9 11:26:59 1983
Date-Received: Thu, 10-Nov-83 03:01:29 EST
References: <111@drux.UUCP> <288@bbncca.ARPA>
Organization: Bolt, Beranek and Newman, Cambridge, Ma.
Lines: 14
I disagree that net.general was an inappropriate place to bring this up. I
found it quite interesting. As for the comment about the nondemocratic
nature of corporations: if that sort of roll-over-dead perspective was
universal, there would have been no civil rights movement, women's liberation,
gay rights, liberation theology... Just because one works in the Belly of the
Beast seems no reason to worship it in all its many forms... And while it is
true that corporations are generally nondemocratic, and the Phone Company is
not rumored to be an exception to this rule, there are a growing number of
companies which are worker-owned and controlled, in addition to being like all
companies worker-operated... Perhaps net.politics might be more appropriate
at this point; in any case, it would appear our Denver friends will be unable to
participate.
--Jim Bray UUCP decvax!bbncca!jbray, Arpa jbray@bbncca
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From: r...@mgweed.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.followup,btl.general
Subject: Re: The saga of netnews at Denver AT&T (nee Bell Labs, ahh those were the days)
Message-ID: <4631@mgweed.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 11-Nov-83 23:42:56 EST
Article-I.D.: mgweed.4631
Posted: Fri Nov 11 23:42:56 1983
Date-Received: Sun, 13-Nov-83 12:59:05 EST
References: <111@drux.UUCP>
Organization: AT&T Western Electric - Montgomery Illinois
Lines: 6
It's too bad that computer system managers have to become police units. The
immediate supervisor is to blame if he cannot control his people, not the
provided means of communication. As far as "free speech" - think again. I've
found that free speech occurs at that point where you pay your own salary.
Randy King
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Path: utzoo!linus!decvax!harpo!seismo!hao!woods
From: w...@hao.UUCP (Greg Woods)
Newsgroups: net.followup
Subject: Re: The saga of netnews at Denver AT&T (nee Bell Labs, ahh those were the days)
Message-ID: <694@hao.UUCP>
Date: Tue, 15-Nov-83 00:29:10 EST
Article-I.D.: hao.694
Posted: Tue Nov 15 00:29:10 1983
Date-Received: Thu, 10-Nov-83 20:59:16 EST
References: <111@drux.UUCP>
Organization: High Altitude Obs./NCAR, Boulder CO
Lines: 24
This is really a deplorable situation. And to think I actually have
considered trying to get a job there because they might pay more money than
my current government job! ( :-) for those folks here at HAO!)
I'd also like to mention that failure of Denver AT&T (whatever that is
really called after the Big Breakup) management to come to terms with
USENET has made the "Distribution" feature practically useless here in Colorado,
since they have always been too paranoid to connect with non-Bell sites which
excludes all other local sites. Thus, articles posted with distribution "co"
have reached less than half (rough estimation, I admit) of the netnews
readers in this state, and a lot less percentage than that in this local
area (Boulder, 25 miles or so from Denver, and even less from the part of
town where Bell is; lots of their employess [I've met a few via the net] live
here).
Those folks there in Denver, be sure and bring up at your ARG
meeting that there are qualified potential employees out here looking on this
in an extremely bad light. I for one could never work for a company that is so
closed-minded that they would actually eliminate all of USENET over one
offensive joke.
GREG
--
{ucbvax!hplabs | allegra!nbires | decvax!brl-bmd | harpo!seismo | ihnp4!kpno}
!hao!woods
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Path: utzoo!linus!security!genrad!decvax!harpo!seismo!hao!hplabsc!faunt
From: f...@hplabsc.UUCP (Doug Faunt)
Newsgroups: net.followup,btl.general
Subject: Re: The saga of netnews at Denver AT&T...
Message-ID: <1478@hplabsc.UUCP>
Date: Wed, 16-Nov-83 01:18:01 EST
Article-I.D.: hplabsc.1478
Posted: Wed Nov 16 01:18:01 1983
Date-Received: Sat, 12-Nov-83 15:42:15 EST
References: <111@drux.UUCP> <288@bbncca.ARPA>
Organization: Hewlett Packard Labs, Palo Alto CA
Lines: 6
I disagree. We are all, to some degree or other, potential employees
of that site, and this type of attitude is something I would like to
know about. Also, it is an object lesson in what can happen at a site
and will give other sites incentive to keep up a certain level of
responsiblity, and perhaps prevent this from happening elsewhere.
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houxm!ihnp4!drux3!darrell
From: darr...@drux3.UUCP
Newsgroups: net.general,net.news
Subject: Denver Is Back
Message-ID: <909@drux3.UUCP>
Date: Fri, 2-Dec-83 15:14:13 EST
Article-I.D.: drux3.909
Posted: Fri Dec 2 15:14:13 1983
Date-Received: Sun, 4-Dec-83 07:33:37 EST
Organization: AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Denver
Lines: 6
Netnews is back on at AT&T Information Systems Labatories in Denver!
Watch for news coming from our site shortly. It's good to be back.
--
Darrell McIntosh
AT&T Information Systems Laboratories, Denver
(303) 538-1376, {ihnp4|hogpc}!drux3!darrell
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